Timing Errors- Simulation vs. VDL
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Here are a few from Raccoon’s catalog that the duration in the VDL and the simulation are off (the simulation is longer).
RA143040
RA143024
This is one I created where the duration is also too long. Here is the VDL and I’ve attached 2 pictures showing the start/stop time.
30mm 15.0m 30.00s 0.80 PFT 49 Shot Sparse Dim Red & Dim Blue Twinkling To Very Bright Silver Falling Leaves Silent Fan Cake (7 Rows)
For the undo issue:
1. I click on an effect from the timeline to modify the VDL because it doesn’t appear quite right.
2. I make my changes and hit enter.
3. I view the effect in the show and don’t like the changes I made so I hit “Ctrl”+”Z”.
a. The effect simulation reverts back.
4. I open the VDL edit and see that although the simulation has changed, the VDL description has not reverted back to the original.
Thanks for the detailed explanation and screenshots! Those are very helpful and I think I see what the issues are now.
What you’re seeing isn’t because of anything you’re doing wrong, and doesn’t seem to be related to updating Finale 3D, but is just a quirk of the way the effects are rendered and the way durations are calculated. The “Duration” field works a little differently than the timeline duration bar. The timeline bar shows the full visual duration of the effect, including any residual sparks or stars and ongoing visual effects, while the “Duration” field specifies the precise time from the first launch to the last launch (or last break, depending on whether or not the effect has aerial breaks).
• For effects that have an aerial break (like peonies, falling leaves, or anything else that breaks), the “Duration” field specifies the time from the first launch to the break of the last shell.
• For effects that don’t have an aerial break (like comets or mines), the “Duration” field specifies the time from the first launch to the last launch.
For the Raccoon cake you mentioned (RA143040), it has no breaks, so the “Duration” of 2.5 seconds means that the last shot will be launched at precisely 2.5 seconds into the effect (which you can see in the screenshot below). However, the visual effect is still going on after that because of the burning stars, etc. This is why the timeline indicator shows up as longer than 2.5 seconds, because it includes this extra visual effect time while the stars burn out.
In the case of your custom falling leaves cake, the effect has breaks, so the “Duration” of 30 seconds here means the last break happens at precisely 30 seconds into the effect (as opposed to the last launch with a non-breaking effect. You can see this in the screenshot below). As with the other example, the timeline duration bar shows the extra time due to the rest of the visual effect that is still taking place while the falling leaves travel down and burn out.
I hope that helps clear up the unexpected duration times. They aren’t so much wrong as perhaps just unexpected due to the way Finale 3D calculates the visual simulations for the effects.
When it comes to the undo issue you’re describing, this is due to the way the Finale 3D interface handles the action depending on which window you currently have focused and what effects list you have open. What you’ve described does indeed cause the unexpected discrepancy where you’re left with an effect in your timeline that doesn’t match the effect in your My effects list. The behavior is not intuitive and we’ll look for ways to improve this moving forward.
The reason for this is because when you create the effect to begin with and add it to My effects, that becomes the VDL/effect you insert into the show. However, once you’ve inserted the effect into your show, the effect in your timeline is now actually referring to a copy of the VDL/effect that is stored in the Per-show effects list, instead of the My effects one.
From that point, if you right click the effect in the timeline and edit the VDL from there, you will actually be updating/modifying the VDL stored in the Per-show effects list. However, if you have the My effects list open instead of the Per-show effects list, Finale 3D realizes this is the same effect from My effects and also updates the effect there (← this is one part of why this problem happens, because undoing later does not also update the My effects version the same way).
The problem arises when you have the Design window selected (the timeline window) and click/press Undo. This undoes the changes to the effect in the Per-show effects list, but not the effect in My Effects, even if you have that list open (which doesn’t match the behavior of when you modified the effect. Remember earlier, modifying the effect updated it in Per-show effects and My effects). This leaves you in a state where the My effects version doesn’t match what you have in your timeline (though the Per-show effects version will always match what’s in your timeline — those are synonymous because the timeline just references effects from Per-show effects).
One way to avoid this undo discrepancy is to click into the My effects window before undoing changes you’ve made to effects from the timeline, or to only make changes to the effects from the My effects list/window (instead of making effect changes using the menu from the timeline). This way, the My effects version of the effect gets undone/reverted/modified, which will then trigger Finale 3D to see that your Per-show effects version of that effect doesn’t match, and then give you a dialog with the option to update the show-specific version of the effect as well. Clicking “Yes” will then update your Per-show effects version. This method will make sure the effects in your timeline and Per-show effects list always match the ones in your My effects list, since the My effects version is what’s always being modified and then the changes are being applied to the other list from there.
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