FlyingPyro,   This was an AWESOME question...because I had the same one. almost verbatim. Thanks!   I'm brand new to Finale3D, Hobby user, on a rocket ship learning curve with a short timeframe to "master" it. Anyway, I started by making a show template with positions etc., and built individual scripts each with their own songs. Then I copy/pasted and shifted the times around as Drew said using the Shift tools mentioned above. HOWEVER...what I discovered is...my used/avail inventory accounting become confusing across individual design files, without a tedious 3rd party spreadsheet application. Also, since I use the "per-show effects" to place-hold all my custom effects**, they weren't being shared in my blank, template file, or across the individual created scripts. Thus...after 3 individual script files of my 6 song show, I just started building song 4,5,6 in the combined song1,2,3 file. What I did was save the file as I completed each new song...then...if i want to change a middle song, I can go back to the file where that is the "last" song, change it, resave it, then copy/paste the rest of the show after that from the "final" version.   **Because my wholesaler does not have a Finale3D database (yet...???), I have to steal each effect from a different retailer, ungroup it/explode it/resave it/make specific effect to add to it/change it/resave it to get what I want it to look like, more importantly the DURATIONS. Therefore, my "my-effects" window is over-loaded with hundreds of effects and makes it difficult for me to use as a working database. I'm sure there's a better way to do what I'm doing but my self-taught crash course found this way the easiest.

Hi Brett, replies to your questions in bold.   If you want to make changes to the entire show, it seems a best practice would be to import each individually. If you create one sound file for all the songs, then how would you only remove the middle song? Maybe not, I don’t know. Can you cut just a section of song within Finale 3D? Although it's a bit cumbersome, you can remove a song from the middle of a pre-edited, multi-song soundtrack in Finale 3D. However, if your soundtrack was created outside Finale 3D, a better approach is to simply remove the song outside of Finale 3D. If you edit your music non-destructively, and save a project file in your audio editing software, then you can easily go back to the multi-song project and add, remove, edit, and shift songs as needed. Then, you can simply import the updated soundtrack into Finale 3D and shift any timeline events that don't align.   1. I would think a best practice for having flexibility in your show to make changes would be to always import songs and scripts independently and not utilize one large multi song music file (Unless you are certain on the song choices etc, but even then why not maintain flexibility, but that’s a personal preference).  What are your thoughts? To your point, I think it really comes to down to personal preference. If you like the flexibility Finale 3D (Hobbyist and Pro) provide for working with multiple songs/audio files in the same show, then that's great, and that's exactly why Finale 3D supports this workflow.   2. Always create a Site Show Template first. Then utilize the template when scripting each song. This will allow for easier copy and paste. Thoughts? Yes, while it's possible to use copy/paste to combine shows with different position layouts, it's much easier when all the shows being combined have the exact same position names and layout.   What about importing songs, is it best to stick with stereo initially? I’ve used SMPTE in the the past. So if you want to preserve the flexibility, does that mean I need to retain the stereo format? (multi channel track).  But what If I decide I want to utilize mono? Does it matter what version of the song I initially import Mono or stereo? Let’s say I go to a shoot and all of sudden the idea of using SMPTE is not going to work, meaning I have to use the audio box or vice versa. You can add SMPTE or FSK timecode to your soundtrack in Finale 3D (Hobbyist and Pro) regardless of whether your audio files were imported as stereo or mono.   Just trying to avoid traps that limit my flexibility to adapt to as many situations as I can.   Work flow for a three song show>   Step 1. – Edit all the songs as required for the main show and then create a separate MP3 file for each (starting with WAV format then back to MP3 to get rid of the artifacts –every time I import a song, there are artifacts) For best quality, stick with WAV through the entire design process and only convert your final soundtrack to MP3 if absolutely necessary. If you're shooting your show using timecode, you don't need an MP3. WAV files are lossless. No matter how many times an audio file is encoded and re-encoded as WAV, the quality is preserved. By contrast, MP3 is a compressed, lossy format. If you encode individual songs as WAV, then MP3, you're losing quality. If you then import the songs into Finale 3D, then export your complete/final soundtrack, you'll have a WAV file (because Finale 3D only exports WAV at this time). Then, if you need MP3, you'll have to convert to MP3 again. At this point you've re-compressed your audio to MP3 twice. No good! If you stick to WAV through your entire design process and only convert to MP3 at then very end, you'll limit the number of compression passes and preserve quality.   Step 2. Create a site layout template (Any insights on best practices here would be useful) This is largely personal preference and a function of your preferred show production workflow.   Step 3. Open site layout and create script for first song and save as .fin file, rinse repeat for the other two songs. This works, but keep in mind, if you script each song separately, you won't get a complete view of product utilization until you combine all songs into one show. If you have limited inventory, or you just value being able to see the total "Used" quantities for the entire show mid-design, then designing the entire show as a single file from the outset offers that advantage.   Step 4. Open site layout template and then import all three songs via cut and paste Yes, just make sure that you don't have common part numbers in different show files that represent different effects. For example, if part number 10020 is a 30mm Red Comet in show A, and the same part number is a 45mm Blue Mine in show B, this will create a conflict when the shows are combined. Make sure that all unique effects have unique part numbers across all shows before combining.

  Pyro_45280000 wrote: Hi Drew, I’ve been reading the forum, but I don’t know where I’m making a mistake? In the subtly,,, it only shows me fuel mine as I’m sending you. And I’ve also done the steps you recommended to others. I downloaded Pyrojam cagatalog again.? I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding the problem. Your screenshot shows a list of many Subtypes, not just Fuel Mine. Can you try describing the problem in more detail?

  Leon_Sutliffe wrote: Hi, I might’ve missed some of these, but i thought id just check. 1. Can cakes / Cake-Slices be angled or are they limited to vertical only? Yes, cakes can be angled. For a tutorial on angling cakes, go to 9:30 in this video: https://finale3d.com/video/mastering-angles-pan-tilt-spin   2. what happens if rules are accidentally broken in small quantities? I.E. if one or two effects got mis placed on a prox position rather than a front? is that effect deleted and the show judged without, a points reduction, disqualification? Small, inadvertent mistakes would not result in disqualification. The show will be judged as is, without effects being deleted. Minor errors don't have specific point deduction values unless noted in the rules. For example, there is a 5 point deduction for shows that don't meeting the duration requirements.   3.Is there an easy what to see what effects are used in a set of positions? useful for checking that ive only used the correct effect types in the correct place. Unhide the Subtype column in the script window and click on the Subtype column header to sort the script by Subtype. Then, filter the script to a set of positions, for example F-01 to F-19. Then, simply scroll through the script and look for events with Subtype values that don't belong in those positions.   4. is there a way to see all the effects used in the show, with the quantities used and the available amount, so I can double check Ive not gone over anywhere. Use the quantity filter in the effects window to filter the PyroJam catalog to Used > Available.   5. How precise for angles can SS positions be? of course fans can be Simulated with less than single degree accuracy, but that’s not practical in the real world to set up, is there any recommended guidance, I.E. 5 degree divisions? 1° degree increments are fine.

Hi Drew, I've been reading the forum, but I don't know where I'm making a mistake? In the subtly,,, it only shows me fuel mine as I'm sending you. And I've also done the steps you recommended to others. I downloaded Pyrojam cagatalog again.? Thanks for the help.     Etc.,  I done this.   Thank you.

Hi, I might've missed some of these, but i thought id just check.   1. Can cakes / Cake-Slices be angled or are they limited to vertical only? 2. what happens if rules are accidentally broken in small quantities? I.E. if one or two effects got mis placed on a prox position rather than a front? is that effect deleted and the show judged without, a points reduction, disqualification? 3.Is there an easy what to see what effects are used in a set of positions? useful for checking that ive only used the correct effect types in the correct place. 4. is there a way to see all the effects used in the show, with the quantities used and the available amount, so I can double check Ive not gone over anywhere. 5. How precise for angles can SS positions be? of course fans can be Simulated with less than single degree accuracy, but that's not practical in the real world to set up, is there any recommended guidance, I.E. 5 degree divisions?

Hi ! Sorry ! Indeed, I spoke about the wheel and not about the towers ! Thanks for your answer.

Hi Star Stuff, thanks for the bump. Unfortunately, no, I haven't seen any response. I know the VR is probably a big effort, but I still think it would be a game changer.   Tim Star_Stuff wrote: My apology. I thought I was replying to your original post from last May here it is again: I haven’t gone through this whole thread, but my search landed on your post. Did Drew get back to you on any of these? Speed of play back was what I was interested in. I liked all of your recommendations. CTRL Y gets me sometimes. …and mirroring. …but then I saw your last note. Even without the immersive aspect putting a show through the occulus Quest3 it was very nice! Sky Fire Forge wrote: Hi All, now that the PyroJam competition is over (congrats to the winners, looking forward to being there in person), I wanted to share some of my thought on using Finale 3D, now that I finally got them down on paper. This was really my first time seriously using Finale and first and foremost, I found it a great piece of software to use. It is very user friendly and intuitive. However, being the good engineer, I have a few fixes and improvements I’d like to see. Please take these with a grain of salt since I am a true novice and may not have found some of these in the software. Also, these comments are limited to scripting as I didn’t do anything with addressing, site layout, or rack design and are based on version 2024.02.23-18f9290b1. Fixes: – In the script window, when setting a filter for cue count, it only shows the first 999 cues. It should go all the way to the end of the show. – In the script window “Part Number” is available to be used as a filter. However, it is not available in the effect window. This would be very handy to have in the effect window as well. – In the “Render Settings”, all the settings seem to save between session of using Finale, except “Particle Limit”. Please consider having “Particle Limit” save between sessions. – Similar to other Windows applications, pressing Ctrl the dragging an item or items will copy them in the timeline or in the render window. However, unlike other windows applications, you cannot drag the item(s) then press Ctrl to copy. Please fix so that order of operation doesn’t matter. Improvements: – Sometimes, I found I was accidentally opening a window (example, the fan window) and wanted to get out of it right away using the keyboard. I found myself hitting ESC to close the window, but that doesn’t work. I would suggest having ESC assigned as the cancel button. – Being used to the Windows standard redo of Crtl-Y, it took a while to get used to Ctrl-Shift-Z for redo, I would suggest adding Crtl-Y as redo. – It would be nice to have the ability to adjust playback speed in the simulation and not just when generating a video to help fine tune timing. – A few times I just wanted to see what a single cue looked like. An isolated window that showed just a preview of the selected cue might be helpful. – Several times I created an effect on one side of the layout but wanted to quickly mirror it to the other side using the same timing and effects, just the opposite angles. A mirror function would be really handy instead of manually having to set the other side up. Really Cool Idea: – Any thoughts about integrating VR headsets (like Oculus) into Finale 3D? I think that would be totally amazing to watch a simulation in a fully immersive 3D environment!!! Thanks for listening, Tim

  LilyPyro wrote: Hi ! I wanted to use the 360° towers, but I have a question about angle restrictions: I put an effect every 0.1 seconds to obtain a rotating effect. As a result, I don’t really have a complete revolution every time, but it’s close. So I wanted to know if it still worked for the restrictions or not ? Thanks ! Hi LilyPyro, I want to make sure I'm understanding your question correctly.  First, you said "360* towers", so let's make sure we are both talking about the same positions.  The "Tower" Positions (T-1...and T-2...) are limited to angles from -70* to 70*, but the "Wheel Position (WH) allows you to place items in a circular pattern 360 degrees around the position.  Make sure you are only trying to create the rotating effect on the "Wheel" position in the center. Keep in mind you may only use one or the other (either the two "Tower" positions or the single "Wheel" Position)   Hopefully his helps answer your question, but if not, please let me know specifically what problem you are having placing the devices as you would like to use them from the "WH" position.

Hi ! I wanted to use the 360° towers, but I have a question about angle restrictions: I put an effect every 0.1 seconds to obtain a rotating effect. As a result, I don't really have a complete revolution every time, but it's close. So I wanted to know if it still worked for the restrictions or not ? Thanks !